Pat Metheny "The Way Up"

[The Enunciator]

I've been listening to this over the weekend and wondering why Pat
couldn't do us the favor of adding a few track marks in Parts One, Two
and Three, which clock in at 26:27, 20:29, and 19:48 respectively.

There are very obvious transition points in the recordings that easily
suggest themselves as places to insert a track mark. Such marks would
be a favor to we listeners to enable us to more easily scan the disc
for sections that we'd like to listen to again.

It brings to mind another talented guitarist who is so absorbed with
himself that he released an entire cd (of individually titled songs) as
one track.

[.MAtt Butler]

Who?

Post by The Enunciator
It brings to mind another talented guitarist who is so absorbed with
himself that he released an entire cd (of individually titled songs) as
one track.

[ric]

Who?

Post by The Enunciator
It brings to mind another talented guitarist who is so absorbed with
himself that he released an entire cd (of individually titled songs) as
one track.

The latest from Metheny was one continuous composition. The track marks
were added only to pacify those few who cannot do without them. The
composition is meant to be listened to in its entirety, not in small doses.

[The Enunciator]

Post by ric

Who?

Post by The Enunciator
It brings to mind another talented guitarist who is so absorbed with
himself that he released an entire cd (of individually titled songs) as
one track.

The latest from Metheny was one continuous composition. The track marks
were added only to pacify those few who cannot do without them. The
composition is meant to be listened to in its entirety, not in small doses.

So are films, but they still but chapter marks in the dvd.

Lots of classical recordings include track marks for movements within a
larger composition, so its not like this is an unheard of practice,
even among "artists."

[Michael Anderson]

On 6 Feb 2005 22:36:01 -0800, "The Enunciator"

Post by The Enunciator

Post by ric

Who?

Post by The Enunciator
It brings to mind another talented guitarist who is so absorbed

with

Post by ric

Post by The Enunciator
himself that he released an entire cd (of individually titled

songs) as

Post by ric

Post by The Enunciator
one track.

The latest from Metheny was one continuous composition. The track

marks

Post by ric
were added only to pacify those few who cannot do without them. The
composition is meant to be listened to in its entirety, not in small

doses.
So are films, but they still but chapter marks in the dvd.
Lots of classical recordings include track marks for movements within a
larger composition, so its not like this is an unheard of practice,
even among "artists."

But the question on this part of the thread was "who is the other
talented guitarist who is so absorbed with himself that he released an
entire cd (of individually titled songs) as one track."

Mike

[The Enunciator]

Post by Michael Anderson
On 6 Feb 2005 22:36:01 -0800, "The Enunciator"

Post by The Enunciator

Post by ric

Who?

Post by The Enunciator
It brings to mind another talented guitarist who is so

absorbed

Post by Michael Anderson

Post by The Enunciator
with

Post by ric

Post by The Enunciator
himself that he released an entire cd (of individually titled

songs) as

Post by ric

Post by The Enunciator
one track.

The latest from Metheny was one continuous composition. The track

marks

Post by ric
were added only to pacify those few who cannot do without them. The
composition is meant to be listened to in its entirety, not in small

doses.
So are films, but they still but chapter marks in the dvd.
Lots of classical recordings include track marks for movements within a
larger composition, so its not like this is an unheard of practice,
even among "artists."

But the question on this part of the thread was "who is the other
talented guitarist who is so absorbed with himself that he released an
entire cd (of individually titled songs) as one track."
Mike

Hint: co-produced his first album at the age of 17; would have
produced the entire thing himself by the label was wary of granting so
much control to a teenager; has since produced all his albums.

[Greger Hoel]

On 7 Feb 2005 05:01:17 -0800, "The Enunciator"

Post by The Enunciator
Hint: co-produced his first album at the age of 17; would have
produced the entire thing himself by the label was wary of granting so
much control to a teenager; has since produced all his albums.

He did, however, divide his most popular work into several tracks when
releasing the sequel in 92 (or was it 93?).

[paul]

who are you guys talking about?

[Greger Hoel]

Post by paul
who are you guys talking about?

The Moonlight Shadow

[The Enunciator]

Post by paul
who are you guys talking about?

Think: self-absorbed; pretentious; outrageous; genius


Hint: his initials are PRN

[Greger Hoel]

On 7 Feb 2005 18:31:21 -0800, "The Enunciator"

Post by The Enunciator

Post by paul
who are you guys talking about?

Think: self-absorbed; pretentious; outrageous; genius
Hint: his initials are PRN

Him? I thought you meant Mike Oldfield :P

[paul]

I have no idea who you guys are talking about, oh well. why doesn't
anyone want to mention his name?

[Tone]

Post by paul
I have no idea who you guys are talking about, oh well. why doesn't
anyone want to mention his name?

Prince Nelson Rogers, I believe. AKA Prince and TAFKAP.

[r***@hotmail.com]

Post by The Enunciator

Post by paul
who are you guys talking about?

Think: self-absorbed; pretentious; outrageous; genius
Hint: his initials are PRN

Is he considered a talented guitarist?

[The Enunciator]

Post by r***@hotmail.com

Post by The Enunciator

Post by paul
who are you guys talking about?

Think: self-absorbed; pretentious; outrageous; genius
Hint: his initials are PRN

Is he considered a talented guitarist?

Depends on whom you ask, I suppose.

[Remove Underscores]

Post by The Enunciator

Post by paul
who are you guys talking about?

Think: self-absorbed; pretentious; outrageous; genius
Hint: his initials are PRN

Up until you gave the hint, I was thinking Keith Jarrett.

[The Enunciator]

Post by Remove Underscores

Post by The Enunciator

Post by paul
who are you guys talking about?

Think: self-absorbed; pretentious; outrageous; genius
Hint: his initials are PRN

Up until you gave the hint, I was thinking Keith Jarrett.

But Jarrett's not a guitarist.

[dolittle]

Post by The Enunciator

Post by paul
who are you guys talking about?

Think: self-absorbed; pretentious; outrageous; genius
Hint: his initials are PRN

And who may this self absorbed, prententious, outrageous, bugger (named
Enunciator) be?
Reveal yourself man, like everybody else here.

[The Enunciator]

Post by dolittle

Post by The Enunciator

Post by paul
who are you guys talking about?

Think: self-absorbed; pretentious; outrageous; genius
Hint: his initials are PRN

And who may this self absorbed, prententious, outrageous, bugger (named
Enunciator) be?
Reveal yourself man, like everybody else here.

Like, dolittle, you mean?

[Jack A. Zucker]

Why does Pat owe us a favor? His favor was to record the CD in the first
place! :-)
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"

Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net

Post by The Enunciator
I've been listening to this over the weekend and wondering why Pat
couldn't do us the favor of adding a few track marks in Parts One, Two
and Three, which clock in at 26:27, 20:29, and 19:48 respectively.
There are very obvious transition points in the recordings that easily
suggest themselves as places to insert a track mark. Such marks would
be a favor to we listeners to enable us to more easily scan the disc
for sections that we'd like to listen to again.
It brings to mind another talented guitarist who is so absorbed with
himself that he released an entire cd (of individually titled songs) as
one track.

[The Enunciator]

Post by Jack A. Zucker
Why does Pat owe us a favor? His favor was to record the CD in the first
place! :-)

Is a windshield on your car a "favor" from the manufacturer? After
all, you _can_ drive without it.

Is a thermostat on your heater/aircon a "favor"? I mean, you could
regulate the temperature yourself just by turning it on and off.

Is it a favor when the printer cuts the pages of a book for you? Or
should we be thankful simply that the writer wrote a book?

Is a favor to put chapter marks in your DVD? Or should we be happy
that the studio/filmmaker released a dvd at all?

[Jack A. Zucker]

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Jack A. Zucker
Why does Pat owe us a favor? His favor was to record the CD in the

first

Post by Jack A. Zucker
place! :-)

Is a windshield on your car a "favor" from the manufacturer? After
all, you _can_ drive without it.

Pat's an artist. How about if we put numbers and RGB values on a picasso to
make it easier too?

[ken]

Post by Jack A. Zucker
Pat's an artist. How about if we put numbers and RGB values on a picasso to
make it easier too?

Exactly. He's a pretty smart guy too, so I'm sure there's a reason why
it is the way it is.

By the way, what are the opinions on TWU? Looks like it's split down
the middle at the PMG group (hate it!, Love it!)

Ken

[ric]

Post by ken
By the way, what are the opinions on TWU? Looks like it's split down
the middle at the PMG group (hate it!, Love it!)

As a composition, it's the best PMG work yet. As far as how much *I* like
it, I've only heard it a few times. Far too soon to be sure, but I've
enjoyed it more and more upon each listen.

[Barry]

I'm biased, because my first hearing of it was live in Norfolk VA ... I
think it is an immensly (and immense) creative work, brilliantly and
passionately performed. Has anyone heard such a musical rendering of JOY as
the dual vocal portion of Part 3? Count me as "loves it"

/Barry
Virginia Beach VA

Post by Jack A. Zucker

Post by Jack A. Zucker
Pat's an artist. How about if we put numbers and RGB values on a

picasso to

Post by Jack A. Zucker
make it easier too?

Exactly. He's a pretty smart guy too, so I'm sure there's a reason why
it is the way it is.
By the way, what are the opinions on TWU? Looks like it's split down
the middle at the PMG group (hate it!, Love it!)
Ken

[ric]

Post by Barry
I'm biased, because my first hearing of it was live in Norfolk VA ... I
think it is an immensly (and immense) creative work, brilliantly and
passionately performed. Has anyone heard such a musical rendering of JOY as
the dual vocal portion of Part 3? Count me as "loves it"

Replying to a post from February 6? The rest of us have already worn
out our "The Way Up" disc. Definitely grows on you.

[Pablo]

Post by Jack A. Zucker

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Jack A. Zucker
Why does Pat owe us a favor? His favor was to record the CD in the

first

Post by Jack A. Zucker
place! :-)

Is a windshield on your car a "favor" from the manufacturer? After
all, you _can_ drive without it.

Pat's an artist. How about if we put numbers and RGB values on a picasso
to make it easier too?

Perhaps the original poster can register his comments on Pat's website. He
just might get a response from Pat (after the tour, of course).

As you state, Pat is an artist. By their very nature, artists tend to be
"self-absorbed." While this can cause problems in artists' personal lives
(or, rather, in the lives of those who are in artists' lives), it can be a
boon to those who admire results of such self-absorption. Pat doesn't need
to impress. He needs to express.

Pablo

[The Enunciator]

Post by Jack A. Zucker

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Jack A. Zucker
Why does Pat owe us a favor? His favor was to record the CD in the

first

Post by Jack A. Zucker
place! :-)

Is a windshield on your car a "favor" from the manufacturer? After
all, you _can_ drive without it.

Pat's an artist.

Automobile, industrial, and book designers are not?

The point is not whether the person is an "artist" (whatever you happen
to think that means), but why it was necessary to issue the music in
such inaccessible chunks. If he wants us to listen straight through,
then that's fine, all he has to do is say so. He can still issue the
disc with additional track marks. The decision's got nothing to do
with "art." Would you like a 600-page book printed on huge fold-out
sheet?

Post by Jack A. Zucker
How about if we put numbers and RGB values on a picasso to
make it easier too?

How would an RGB value make a Picasso "easier"? For whom?

[ken]

Post by The Enunciator
The point is not whether the person is an "artist" (whatever you happen
to think that means), but why it was necessary to issue the music in
such inaccessible chunks. If he wants us to listen straight through,
then that's fine, all he has to do is say so. He can still issue the
disc with additional track marks.

PM is a really smart guy. I think he knows what he is doing. He is a
little more aware and commercially minded than most jazz musicians.

Maybe he didn't want to encourage airplay on the radio of small pieces
of what he thinks is a whole.

I don't think Da Vinci would be thrilled if people only showed Mona
Lisa's left eye...

Anyway, PM is a perfectionist. I think you can count on the fact that
he put a lot of thought into these decisions.

Ken

[The Enunciator]

Post by ken
PM is a really smart guy. I think he knows what he is doing. He is a
little more aware and commercially minded than most jazz musicians.

About being more commercially minded than most, I agree.

Post by ken
Maybe he didn't want to encourage airplay on the radio of small pieces
of what he thinks is a whole.

That's a possibility, but it seems rather odd. The music doesn't sound
particually radio-friendly, so I can't imagine that it will get much
airplay, additional track marks or not.

But more specifically, why would any artist (who makes a living from
selling tickets and recordings) want to discourage airplay?

Post by ken
I don't think Da Vinci would be thrilled if people only showed Mona
Lisa's left eye...

Probably not, but perhaps if you saw a part you'd be interested in
searching out the whole.

[Peter Inglis - TWG]

Post by ken
Anyway, PM is a perfectionist. I think you can count on the fact that
he put a lot of thought into these decisions.

Alternate theory:

"... is a really -busy- guy and the decisions about track markers
just slipped between the tracks, sorry, between the cracks."

[The Enunciator]

Post by ken
PM is a really smart guy. I think he knows what he is doing.

After reading that the new extended composition was intended as a
political statement I tend to think that at least in this case he
really isn't such a smart guy.

[Michael Anderson]

Post by The Enunciator

Post by ken
PM is a really smart guy. I think he knows what he is doing.

After reading that the new extended composition was intended as a
political statement I tend to think that at least in this case he
really isn't such a smart guy.

What I read was not so much a "political statement" in the same way we think
of all of these brain-dead actors putting out their agenda, but a protest
against the 'sound byte' lifestyle and culture of overly-political correct
reactionism.

Mike

[The Enunciator]

Post by Michael Anderson

Post by The Enunciator

Post by ken
PM is a really smart guy. I think he knows what he is doing.

After reading that the new extended composition was intended as a
political statement I tend to think that at least in this case he
really isn't such a smart guy.

What I read was not so much a "political statement" in the same way we think
of all of these brain-dead actors putting out their agenda, but a protest
against the 'sound byte' lifestyle and culture of overly-political correct
reactionism.
Mike

You're helping make my point, Mike.

What is a "'sound byte' lifestyle"? And who leads one?

And what does a 68-minute instrumental recording have to do with
"overly-political correct reactionism"?

[Drew Krause]

I haven't followed PM's remarks on the piece; I'll only say that I think
this is one dynamite piece of music. He's got a great ear and I'm glad
that he's becoming ambitious form-wise: he can obviously handle it.

[Jay87]

Post by Drew Krause
I haven't followed PM's remarks on the piece; I'll only say that I think
this is one dynamite piece of music. He's got a great ear and I'm glad
that he's becoming ambitious form-wise: he can obviously handle it.

I agree, i am a great fan of Pat and have all of his albums, this one is
perfect!

[Lawson Stone]

Post by Drew Krause
I haven't followed PM's remarks on the piece; I'll only say that I think
this is one dynamite piece of music. He's got a great ear and I'm glad
that he's becoming ambitious form-wise: he can obviously handle it.

I saw this performed in Detroit, the third time the "Way Up" tour was done.
My wife, who is no big Metheny fan (no big guitar fan, really) was
spellbound with the live performance and astonished when she realized he'd
played non-stop for over an hour. It was overwhelming,.

In general, I was impressed not only with Metheny's playing, but also
with..his "work ethic." Over 3 hours he played. No intermission, he never
left the stage, almost never stopped playing. He was giving it out the whole
time, and it was exhilarating (however that's spelled).

My wife (again), no friend of $75 a seat tickets, gushed that we sure got
our money's worth out of that concert.

I agreed whole heartedly. Great evening, great music.

************************************************************************
"It was no good answering that the Jesuits always know everything. We needed
a more seductive explanation."--Casaubon
************************************************************************
Lawson Stone
Let's talk about: Jazz Guitar, Cowboy Action Shooting, Horses,the Bible
Come by for a visit at: http://home.alltel.net/lawsonstone
For academic stuff: http://fc.asburyseminary.edu/~lawson_stone

[The Enunciator]

Post by Michael Anderson

Post by The Enunciator

Post by ken
PM is a really smart guy. I think he knows what he is doing.

After reading that the new extended composition was intended as a
political statement I tend to think that at least in this case he
really isn't such a smart guy.

What I read was not so much a "political statement" in the same way we think
of all of these brain-dead actors putting out their agenda, but a protest
against the 'sound byte' lifestyle and culture of overly-political correct
reactionism.
Mike

You're helping make my point, Mike.

What is a "'sound byte' lifestyle"? And who leads one?

And what does a 68-minute instrumental recording have to do with
"overly-political correct reactionism"?

[Jack A. Zucker]

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Jack A. Zucker

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Jack A. Zucker
Why does Pat owe us a favor? His favor was to record the CD in the

first

Post by Jack A. Zucker
place! :-)

Is a windshield on your car a "favor" from the manufacturer? After
all, you _can_ drive without it.

Pat's an artist.

Automobile, industrial, and book designers are not?

Possibly or not, that's fodder for another conversation. The point is, it's
the artist that makes the choice. Your choice is whether or not to support
the artist by purchasing their material or by whining about it on the
internet. It's clear which choice you made. :-)

Jaz
www.sheetsofsound.net

[The Enunciator]

Post by Jack A. Zucker

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Jack A. Zucker

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Jack A. Zucker
Why does Pat owe us a favor? His favor was to record the CD in the

first

Post by Jack A. Zucker
place! :-)

Is a windshield on your car a "favor" from the manufacturer?

After

Post by Jack A. Zucker

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Jack A. Zucker

Post by The Enunciator
all, you _can_ drive without it.

Pat's an artist.

Automobile, industrial, and book designers are not?

Possibly or not, that's fodder for another conversation. The point is, it's
the artist that makes the choice.

Do you have any insight into _why_ that choice was made, or are you
going to continue to state the obvious?

[r***@hotmail.com]

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Jack A. Zucker

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Jack A. Zucker
Why does Pat owe us a favor? His favor was to record the CD in the

first

Post by Jack A. Zucker
place! :-)

Is a windshield on your car a "favor" from the manufacturer?

After

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Jack A. Zucker

Post by The Enunciator
all, you _can_ drive without it.

Pat's an artist.

Automobile, industrial, and book designers are not?
The point is not whether the person is an "artist" (whatever you happen
to think that means), but why it was necessary to issue the music in
such inaccessible chunks. If he wants us to listen straight through,
then that's fine, all he has to do is say so. He can still issue the
disc with additional track marks. The decision's got nothing to do
with "art." Would you like a 600-page book printed on huge fold-out
sheet?

Post by Jack A. Zucker
How about if we put numbers and RGB values on a picasso to
make it easier too?

How would an RGB value make a Picasso "easier"? For whom?

If you read his comments about the piece, the whole point is to
compose something that is lengthy. Dividing it into three seems to
militate against such a purpose!!!!! Go on now, read from the site, go
on.....

[The Enunciator]

Post by r***@hotmail.com

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Jack A. Zucker
How about if we put numbers and RGB values on a picasso to
make it easier too?

How would an RGB value make a Picasso "easier"? For whom?

If you read his comments about the piece, the whole point is to
compose something that is lengthy. Dividing it into three seems to
militate against such a purpose!!!!! Go on now, read from the site, go
on.....

Right, so then why not just issue at as one track, hmm?

[r***@hotmail.com]

It looks like the kind of thing they do with classical symphonies,
concerto, etc. I t is common.

[ric]

Post by r***@hotmail.com
If you read his comments about the piece, the whole point is to
compose something that is lengthy. Dividing it into three seems to
militate against such a purpose!!!!! Go on now, read from the site, go
on.....

He *did* compose it as one continuous 68 minute track. The CD index
marks were added in CD production. dum1 realizes this. He just likes
to be difficult.

[The Enunciator]

Post by ric

Post by r***@hotmail.com
If you read his comments about the piece, the whole point is to
compose something that is lengthy. Dividing it into three seems to
militate against such a purpose!!!!! Go on now, read from the site, go
on.....

He *did* compose it as one continuous 68 minute track. The CD index
marks were added in CD production. dum1 realizes this. He just likes
to be difficult.

Ric's the kind of guy who never uses a bookmark when reading a long
book. Everytime he sits down with the book he scans through all the
previosuly read pages to find the spot where he left off.

[Your Mama]

Post by The Enunciator

Post by ric
He *did* compose it as one continuous 68 minute track. The CD index
marks were added in CD production. dum1 realizes this. He just likes
to be difficult.

Ric's the kind of guy who never uses a bookmark when reading a long
book. Everytime he sits down with the book he scans through all the
previosuly read pages to find the spot where he left off.

If the book only takes 68 minutes to read, as the above CD, why bother?
Try an analogy that makes sense.

---
Kill all Internet Trolls

[The Enunciator]

Post by Your Mama

Post by The Enunciator

Post by ric
He *did* compose it as one continuous 68 minute track. The CD index
marks were added in CD production. dum1 realizes this. He just likes
to be difficult.

Ric's the kind of guy who never uses a bookmark when reading a long
book. Everytime he sits down with the book he scans through all the
previosuly read pages to find the spot where he left off.

If the book only takes 68 minutes to read, as the above CD, why bother?
Try an analogy that makes sense.

If you can't see the similarities in the analogy, that's your own
problem.

But I'll humor you for a moment:

Which cd (not a collection of mp3s that you burned to cdr) takes more
than 80 minutes to listen to from start to finish?

[Your Mama]

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Your Mama

Post by The Enunciator
Ric's the kind of guy who never uses a bookmark when reading a long
book. Everytime he sits down with the book he scans through all the
previosuly read pages to find the spot where he left off.

If the book only takes 68 minutes to read, as the above CD, why bother?
Try an analogy that makes sense.

If you can't see the similarities in the analogy, that's your own
problem.

Ah, you are indeed intellectually challenged, as advertised. Arguing
that a 68 minute CD (which is listened to in one sitting) needs
"bookmarks" (index marks) the same as a "long book" (which may be read
over a period of several days) is a ludicrous analogy.

Post by The Enunciator
Which cd (not a collection of mp3s that you burned to cdr) takes more
than 80 minutes to listen to from start to finish?

None, of which I'm aware. That's my point. Unless you have a SEVERE
attention deficiency, no "bookmarks" should be required on a CD. Your
analogy likening CD "index marks" to a book's "bookmarks" is ludicrous.

[The Enunciator]

Post by Your Mama

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Your Mama

Post by The Enunciator
Ric's the kind of guy who never uses a bookmark when reading a long
book. Everytime he sits down with the book he scans through all the
previosuly read pages to find the spot where he left off.

If the book only takes 68 minutes to read, as the above CD, why bother?
Try an analogy that makes sense.

If you can't see the similarities in the analogy, that's your own
problem.

Ah, you are indeed intellectually challenged, as advertised. Arguing
that a 68 minute CD (which is listened to in one sitting) needs
"bookmarks" (index marks) the same as a "long book" (which may be read
over a period of several days) is a ludicrous analogy.

Post by The Enunciator
Which cd (not a collection of mp3s that you burned to cdr) takes more
than 80 minutes to listen to from start to finish?

None, of which I'm aware. That's my point. Unless you have a SEVERE
attention deficiency, no "bookmarks" should be required on a CD. Your
analogy likening CD "index marks" to a book's "bookmarks" is

ludicrous.


Exactly. Because a CD can be listened to whole in one sitting the
analagous part does not refer to time.

Next assignment: please demonstrate for us a perfect analogy.

[dolittle]

Post by The Enunciator
I've been listening to this over the weekend and wondering why Pat
couldn't do us the favor of adding a few track marks in Parts One, Two
and Three, which clock in at 26:27, 20:29, and 19:48 respectively.
There are very obvious transition points in the recordings that easily
suggest themselves as places to insert a track mark. Such marks would
be a favor to we listeners to enable us to more easily scan the disc
for sections that we'd like to listen to again.
It brings to mind another talented guitarist who is so absorbed with
himself that he released an entire cd (of individually titled songs) as
one track.

After listening a few minutes I realised that this not the PM as I admire
him. For me it's the same boring new age& fusion stuff that already made him
a multi millionaire years ago. Of course this is a high standard composition
and I can't blame him for continuing this succes-story. But shouldn't we
here (as jazzguitarists) be more keen on his pioneering trio interpretations
and all the other stuff he did in the genuine jazz field, instead of
uncritically accepting all his commercial smelling stuff, just because it's
Pat Metheny?
Just my 2cts (hoping not to tread on too many toes...), cheers
Hans
www.hansvanleeuwen.ontheweb.nl

[Tom Walls]

Post by dolittle
After listening a few minutes I realised that this not the PM as I admire
him. For me it's the same boring new age& fusion stuff that already made him
a multi millionaire years ago. Of course this is a high standard composition
and I can't blame him for continuing this succes-story. But shouldn't we
here (as jazzguitarists) be more keen on his pioneering trio interpretations
and all the other stuff he did in the genuine jazz field, instead of
uncritically accepting all his commercial smelling stuff, just because it's
Pat Metheny?
Just my 2cts (hoping not to tread on too many toes...), cheers
Hans
www.hansvanleeuwen.ontheweb.nl

Doesn't ring my bell either, but -- from what I understand -- this is
the stuff that's nearest to his heart. Commercial it may be, but it's
undoubtedly sincere, and -- for all I know since I'm not that familiar
with the genre -- could represent creative achievement.

[markr]

Post by Tom Walls
Doesn't ring my bell either, but -- from what I understand -- this is
the stuff that's nearest to his heart. Commercial it may be, but it's
undoubtedly sincere, and -- for all I know since I'm not that

familiar

Post by Tom Walls
with the genre -- could represent creative achievement.
--
Tom Walls
the guy at the Temple of Zeus

=======================
Some of it is pretty challenging to listen to. It does have a lot of
the trademark Methenyisms that have appeared on his other records, but
other parts of it are more experimental in a similar style to Steve
Reich and Eberhard Weber. I don't know that it's the commercialism of
it as much as the sincerity you mentioned that really connects with his
fan base.

-Mark R

[d***@yahoo.com]

I remember Scott Henderson talking about teaching and playing some
students bebop licks and watching them yawn, then he playing them the
same licks with distortion and watching them wow... well obviously this
basic idea works the other way as well and is not limited to all those
silly rock guitarists! anyway, it really is amazing to me how closely
peoples ideas of what has and what is lacking substance are tied to
their stylistic tastes and how the idiomatic characteristics of that
given style are more important than any actual musical or artistic
substance.

daniel stearns
http://kronoson.station185.com/kronosonic/contrib/dan.htm

Post by dolittle

Post by The Enunciator
I've been listening to this over the weekend and wondering why Pat
couldn't do us the favor of adding a few track marks in Parts One, Two
and Three, which clock in at 26:27, 20:29, and 19:48 respectively.
There are very obvious transition points in the recordings that easily
suggest themselves as places to insert a track mark. Such marks would
be a favor to we listeners to enable us to more easily scan the disc
for sections that we'd like to listen to again.
It brings to mind another talented guitarist who is so absorbed with
himself that he released an entire cd (of individually titled songs) as
one track.

After listening a few minutes I realised that this not the PM as I admire
him. For me it's the same boring new age& fusion stuff that already made him
a multi millionaire years ago. Of course this is a high standard composition
and I can't blame him for continuing this succes-story. But shouldn't we
here (as jazzguitarists) be more keen on his pioneering trio

interpretations

Post by dolittle
and all the other stuff he did in the genuine jazz field, instead of
uncritically accepting all his commercial smelling stuff, just because it's
Pat Metheny?
Just my 2cts (hoping not to tread on too many toes...), cheers
Hans
www.hansvanleeuwen.ontheweb.nl

[markr]

I wasn't speaking about whether or not the record has substance; I was
refering to the influences one can hear in the music. Also, there is a
special thanks to Reich and Weber in the liner notes.

[d***@yahoo.com]

oh sure,I was responding to Hans' post

[dolittle]

Post by d***@yahoo.com
oh sure,I was responding to Hans' post

I obviously stepped on your toes...;-)
Hans

[Peter Inglis - TWG]

***@yahoo.com wrote:
<snip>it really is amazing to me how closely

Post by d***@yahoo.com
peoples ideas of what has and what is lacking substance are tied to
their stylistic tastes and how the idiomatic characteristics of that
given style are more important than any actual musical or artistic
substance.
daniel stearns
http://kronoson.station185.com/kronosonic/contrib/dan.htm

So... you'd have no problem listening to Sibelius 4th Symphony
played on a tin whistle ensemble rather than those 'idiomatic' violins...

; < )


Regards,

Peter Inglis - www.thewholeguitarist.com
-- email: ***@thewholeguitarist.com
-- Read "Guitar Playing and How it Works"...
-- A new terminology and approach to the guitar based
-- on principles of the Alexander Technique and dance.
-- Videos of my guitar playing at www.thewholeguitarist.com/listen.htm

[d***@yahoo.com]

I'd have to HEAR it,maybe not

Post by Peter Inglis - TWG
<snip>it really is amazing to me how closely

Post by d***@yahoo.com
peoples ideas of what has and what is lacking substance are tied to
their stylistic tastes and how the idiomatic characteristics of that
given style are more important than any actual musical or artistic
substance.
daniel stearns
http://kronoson.station185.com/kronosonic/contrib/dan.htm

So... you'd have no problem listening to Sibelius 4th Symphony
played on a tin whistle ensemble rather than those 'idiomatic'

violins...

Post by Peter Inglis - TWG
; < )
Regards,
Peter Inglis - www.thewholeguitarist.com
-- Read "Guitar Playing and How it Works"...
-- A new terminology and approach to the guitar based
-- on principles of the Alexander Technique and dance.
-- Videos of my guitar playing at

www.thewholeguitarist.com/listen.htm

[Peter Inglis - TWG]

Post by d***@yahoo.com
I'd have to HEAR it,maybe not

Hehe - touche !

[The Enunciator]

Post by d***@yahoo.com
anyway, it really is amazing to me how closely
peoples ideas of what has and what is lacking substance are tied to
their stylistic tastes and how the idiomatic characteristics of that
given style are more important than any actual musical or artistic
substance.

Absolutely. People respond to all kinds of things that are minimally
or absoltuely non-musical. The corporate music business is built on
this very principle.

[The Enunciator]

Post by dolittle
After listening a few minutes I realised that this not the PM as I admire
him. For me it's the same boring new age& fusion stuff that already made him
a multi millionaire years ago. Of course this is a high standard composition
and I can't blame him for continuing this succes-story. But shouldn't we
here (as jazzguitarists) be more keen on his pioneering trio

interpretations

Post by dolittle
and all the other stuff he did in the genuine jazz field, instead of
uncritically accepting all his commercial smelling stuff, just because it's
Pat Metheny?
Just my 2cts (hoping not to tread on too many toes...), cheers
Hans
www.hansvanleeuwen.ontheweb.nl

How can you afford even 2 cents? To be a proper "artist" you should
have no money and feed only on your resentment at being denined the
recognition, rewards, and popularlity that you so despise in others.

[dolittle]

Post by The Enunciator

Post by dolittle
Just my 2cts (hoping not to tread on too many toes...), cheers
Hans
www.hansvanleeuwen.ontheweb.nl

How can you afford even 2 cents? To be a proper "artist" you should
have no money and feed only on your resentment at being denined the
recognition, rewards, and popularlity that you so despise in others.

quite so!
Hans

[j***@hotmail.com]

Alright, discussion is good, but there should be an understanding that
negative opinions should be reserved or kept out of sight.

It's pretty simple that Metheny is not for eveyone, but the negatives
need not apply or noise up the world :)

The positives are quite welcome, as any real open soul knows, none on
this forum (or any other) could ever get close to composing the way
Metnehy does.

[markr]

Maybe Pat has a suggestion box. When you find it you could drop off
your troll bait there.

[Ben McDonnell]

I just got this cd today, its pretty interesting, quite a bit of steve reich
type influence (thats what i hear anyway!) lots of great moments, as to
track divisions, if pat wanted it listened to in this way (continuasly), why
not?
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About me, Soundclips and Transcriptions
www.geocities.com/benmcdonnelljazzguitar

Post by The Enunciator
I've been listening to this over the weekend and wondering why Pat
couldn't do us the favor of adding a few track marks in Parts One, Two
and Three, which clock in at 26:27, 20:29, and 19:48 respectively.
There are very obvious transition points in the recordings that easily
suggest themselves as places to insert a track mark. Such marks would
be a favor to we listeners to enable us to more easily scan the disc
for sections that we'd like to listen to again.
It brings to mind another talented guitarist who is so absorbed with
himself that he released an entire cd (of individually titled songs) as
one track.

[Guest Pest]

On Sun 06 Feb 2005 07:48:35pm EDT, one who goes by the

Post by The Enunciator
I've been listening to this over the weekend and wondering
why Pat couldn't do us the favor of adding a few track
marks in Parts One, Two and Three, which clock in at 26:27,
20:29, and 19:48 respectively.
There are very obvious transition points in the recordings
that easily suggest themselves as places to insert a track
mark. Such marks would be a favor to we listeners to
enable us to more easily scan the disc for sections that
we'd like to listen to again.

If you have a burner on your PC, you could try making a cue
sheet with Exact Audio Copy, then edit the cue sheet file to
include the extra track placements you would like. With that,
just burn a copy onto a CDR. (By law, you're allowed to make one
backup copy for yourself if you own the original.)

[Gary]

Post by Guest Pest
If you have a burner on your PC, you could try making a cue
sheet with Exact Audio Copy, then edit the cue sheet file to
include the extra track placements you would like.

Nero also allows easy insertion of indexing points.

[The Enunciator]

Post by Guest Pest
If you have a burner on your PC, you could try making a cue
sheet with Exact Audio Copy, then edit the cue sheet file to
include the extra track placements you would like. With that,
just burn a copy onto a CDR. (By law, you're allowed to make one
backup copy for yourself if you own the original.)
--
_T o m_

Hi, Tom. I've already done this with Cool Edit Pro and made a cdr with
11 tracks. Be happy to post the track times if anyone's interested in
where I chose to edit.

[Guest Pest]

On Mon 07 Feb 2005 09:11:52pm EDT, one who goes by the

Post by The Enunciator

Post by Guest Pest
If you have a burner on your PC, you could try making a
cue sheet with Exact Audio Copy, then edit the cue sheet
file to include the extra track placements you would like.
With that, just burn a copy onto a CDR. (By law, you're
allowed to make one backup copy for yourself if you own
the original.)
--
_T o m_

Hi, Tom. I've already done this with Cool Edit Pro and
made a cdr with 11 tracks. Be happy to post the track
times if anyone's interested in where I chose to edit.

OK, whichever method is fine. I also have Cool Edit and Nero (as
Gary mentioned) as well.

[ric]

Post by Guest Pest

Post by The Enunciator
I've been listening to this over the weekend and wondering
why Pat couldn't do us the favor of adding a few track
marks in Parts One, Two and Three, which clock in at 26:27,
20:29, and 19:48 respectively.
There are very obvious transition points in the recordings
that easily suggest themselves as places to insert a track
mark. Such marks would be a favor to we listeners to
enable us to more easily scan the disc for sections that
we'd like to listen to again.

If you have a burner on your PC, you could try making a cue
sheet with Exact Audio Copy, then edit the cue sheet file to
include the extra track placements you would like. With that,
just burn a copy onto a CDR. (By law, you're allowed to make one
backup copy for yourself if you own the original.)

Or he could simply jot down the elapsed time of the section(s) that
he wants to replay, and cue the CD to that point. But he would rather
whine about it here.

[The Enunciator]

Post by ric

Post by Guest Pest

Post by The Enunciator
I've been listening to this over the weekend and wondering
why Pat couldn't do us the favor of adding a few track
marks in Parts One, Two and Three, which clock in at 26:27,
20:29, and 19:48 respectively.
There are very obvious transition points in the recordings
that easily suggest themselves as places to insert a track
mark. Such marks would be a favor to we listeners to
enable us to more easily scan the disc for sections that
we'd like to listen to again.

If you have a burner on your PC, you could try making a cue
sheet with Exact Audio Copy, then edit the cue sheet file to
include the extra track placements you would like. With that,
just burn a copy onto a CDR. (By law, you're allowed to make one
backup copy for yourself if you own the original.)

Or he could simply jot down the elapsed time of the section(s) that
he wants to replay, and cue the CD to that point. But he would rather
whine about it here.

That's pretty funny coming from the loudest old fart at
rec.music.bluenote.

On my cd player the only way to cue a cd is by the track marks,
otherwise you hold the fast-forward button until you get where you want
to go. Not an impossible task, but one I won't be called on to do.
You really should read the messages here before posting. I've already
made my own copy with 11 cues.